[757labs] 757labs Digest, Vol 20, Issue 51

Wed Oct 19 17:05:30 EDT 2011

We are open 10am-6pm M-F 10am-4pm Sat.  757-962-4797.  Ask for Jerry and tell them you are from the lab downtown.

Jerry

On Oct 19, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Rich_m wrote:

> Jerry,
> Where is the junk to scavenge?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich
> 
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:20 PM,  <757labs-request at 757labs.org> wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: HackerSpaces in Space 2011 (Trevor Lewis)
>>   2. Re: Open hack on Friday (James Blandford)
>>   3. Re: Open hack on Friday (Trevor Lewis)
>>   4. Re: HackerSpaces in Space 2011 (Erik Beebe)
>>   5. Re: Open hack on Friday (Jerry Winchel)
>>   6. Re: Open hack on Friday (James Blandford)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:26:48 -0400
>> From: Trevor Lewis <trevorl.salad at gmail.com>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] HackerSpaces in Space 2011
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CACSVzQk=i0_-AC+CCOkhD2P2gb+XG6EsbOy6FX+xweOBnX0Jtw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> A friend of mine on the west coast had a habit of going out to one of the
>> reservations when he was bored. He would take a weather balloon, fill it
>> with acetylene gas and then a couple more ballons filled with either helium
>> or hydrogen. Once the entire thing was sufficiently bouyant he would release
>> the entire thing and remotely detonate it using a variety of methods. The
>> first time he detonated it properly, the resulting explosion shattered the
>> lens in his video camera.
>> 
>> This is what happens when too much money meets too much time. :) He actually
>> quit a very well paying programming job to "play with lasers". Needless to
>> say, he was a blast to hang out with... (bud-dum-dump)
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Adam Crosby <adam at uptill3.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Trevor Lewis wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Hydrogen *is* dangerous. So is electricity. So is Mt. Dew (according to
>>> my wife anyway, and I still don't believe her). If the design called for us
>>> to cover the balloon in thermite, generate high voltages, carry a crapload
>>> of diesel, and make it an electrically unsafe tinderbox, you would find me
>>> conspicuously absent as well. :)
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wait, this sounds like a much cooler project...
>>> HackerSpaceHindenburgs for under $200?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Adam
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:28:40 -0400
>> From: James Blandford <barron.james at gmail.com>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] Open hack on Friday
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CALj-5sqmPr5wYkzmQkWyYiXKj6UEJK8T7dCG4rt8KHm23yq1uA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> What time is it again?
>> On Oct 19, 2011 3:09 PM, <telmnstr at 757.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> For open hack on Fri I'm going to put out the contents of the free box in
>>> the back on table(s) and whatever isnt taken at end of open hack goes into
>>> trash. Time to reset the freebox.
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/757labs<http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs>
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:33:49 -0400
>> From: Trevor Lewis <trevorl.salad at gmail.com>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] Open hack on Friday
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CACSVzQm1voR_mC2WStz7dRBbEp_vdVxSLsU6CEqy4c6PupuqCw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Currently its about 1530... Oh god, I'm so tired I thought that was funny.
>> 
>> The calendar says 7pm for open hack night.
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 3:28 PM, James Blandford <barron.james at gmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> What time is it again?
>>>   On Oct 19, 2011 3:09 PM, <telmnstr at 757.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> For open hack on Fri I'm going to put out the contents of the free box in
>>>> the back on table(s) and whatever isnt taken at end of open hack goes into
>>>> trash. Time to reset the freebox.
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> 757labs mailing list
>>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/757labs<http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs>
>>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:34:56 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Erik Beebe <erik at beebe.cc>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] HackerSpaces in Space 2011
>> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110191230040.11945 at tornado.beebe.cc>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>> 
>> [I can't tell if we top-post here or not, so just going for it]
>> 
>> When we purchased the helium for the last balloon, I did inquire about
>> Hydrogen - AirGas quoted $61.25 for 176cu/ft.
>> 
>> (Compared to the $206.39 for 219 cu/ft of Helium - but Party City turned
>> out to be cheaper than AirGas for Helium - but still way more expensive
>> than Hydrogen).
>> 
>> He didn't really care if we knew much about safety either, he just
>> suggested not letting the bottle roll around the back of the truck. :)
>> 
>> -Erik
>> 
>> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Nathan McGuirt wrote:
>> 
>>> The image was for dramatic effect, I didn't mean for it to distract everyone from the issue at hand. No, this would not be the same scenario as the hindenburg.
>>> 
>>> The key is that a flammable gas mixed with oxygen is what electrolysis of water would generate. That mixture doesn't just burn, it explodes and you don't need a strong concentration to do it. You fill a party balloon (1cuft or so) with any flammable gas and oxygen mixture and light it off, and it'll rattle the damn windows. I've seen it before and it's much like a small scale version of Adam's experience. This is NOT something that should be attempted in the lab. I'm not saying it's unsuitable for use in the balloon if handled properly, especially if it's not mixed 50/50 with an oxidizer. I'm saying trying to generate sizable quantities of hydrogen via electrolysis inside is dangerous. Not 'wife says it's bad for your health' or 'you could shock/burn yourself' dangerous, but 'you could blow the damn windows out if you make enough' dangerous. Outside and with proper planning and safety is a different matter.
>>> 
>>> There may also be legal and building code issues with generating and storing any kind of flammable gasses on the property.
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Adam Crosby wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 100cuft is enough to cause quite a spectacular boom and fire. We used to shoot bottle rockets (don't ask) at 50gal trash bags full of acetylene and anchored with a rope (acetylene is lighter than air, so the trash bag floats). You could hear the explosion miles away, and definitely feel it a few hundred feet away behind a steel barrier :)
>>>> 
>>>> PS: why in the world would we make our own hydrogen and then have to figure out a way to both capture it and compress it for storage, rather than just pay for some? It's reaaaaaly cheap (so cheap even Ethan suggested it!).
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Adam
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Steve Nelson wrote:
>>>>> By the way... from what I can tell from the intertubes... The Hidenburg held 7 MILLLLLLION cubic feet of hydrogen. Our balloon will probably have, at most, 100 cubic feet. Even if this thing does explode, it certainly won't be very spectacular. Maybe a singed eyebrow. If we take the necessary precautions, like making the hydrogen outside, wear appropriate safety gear and you know... don't smoke, we'll be fine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the MAKE magazines in the lab has a two stage HHO rocket made out of 2 liter bottles.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Nathan McGuirt <nathan at meltphace.org (mailto:nathan at meltphace.org)> wrote:
>>>>>> THIS IS DANGEROUS.
>>>>>>>> How much cheaper is hydrogen to buy than helium? You know... we could make our own hydrogen. I don't know how you compress it and make it safe, but all it takes to make it is stick an anode and cathode in a bowl of water. Hydrogen and oxygen will bubble off.
>>>>>> Do not attempt that in the lab or within 100 yards of anywhere I might be at the time, that's an explosion risk. Hydrogen is combustible in very small concentrations with air, it only takes a 4% concentration of hydrogen. You're going to try to concentrate a bunch of hydrogen and oxygen in an environment where you're conducting electrolysis and then somehow separate them?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Lead acid batteries produce an amount of hydrogen when they're overcharged. If you ask around it's pretty easy to find a mechanic that has a story about a charging battery causing an explosion or fire if it's not ventilated properly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Nathan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>  757labs mailing list
>>>>>> 757labs at 757labs.org (mailto:757labs at 757labs.org)
>>>>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>>>>>  If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> 757labs mailing list
>>>>> 757labs at 757labs.org (mailto:757labs at 757labs.org)
>>>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 757labs mailing list
>>>> 757labs at 757labs.org (mailto:757labs at 757labs.org)
>>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:01:58 -0400
>> From: Jerry Winchel <jerry at tesstech.net>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] Open hack on Friday
>> Message-ID: <AA0EB13A-C40A-41B2-97C1-BD1E71468AA7 at tesstech.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Speaking of free stuff... I have another small car load of misc gear here at the pawn shop that is getting ready to go to the trash.  Printers, scanners, fax machines, a CD duper, small tv, cash register and more.  I haven't scavenged anything out of most of these. Some parts are broken and some still work but are just too old to sell in the store.
>> 
>> If anyone want's to come in and get it let me know.  I'll give it another week or so before heading to the dumpster.
>> 
>> I'm also getting ready to have a yard sale.  I'll post pics and give you guys first shot.
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 3:09 PM, telmnstr at 757.org wrote:
>> 
>>> For open hack on Fri I'm going to put out the contents of the free box in the back on table(s) and whatever isnt taken at end of open hack goes into trash. Time to reset the freebox.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:14:25 -0400
>> From: James Blandford <barron.james at gmail.com>
>> To: 757labs at 757labs.org
>> Subject: Re: [757labs] Open hack on Friday
>> Message-ID:
>>        <CALj-5srCp-yiFB1qsZkkbO0B+2ZrBHptdxRqM6=jQc7+eotc_w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Where is this shop?
>> On Oct 19, 2011 4:02 PM, "Jerry Winchel" <jerry at tesstech.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Speaking of free stuff... I have another small car load of misc gear here
>>> at the pawn shop that is getting ready to go to the trash.  Printers,
>>> scanners, fax machines, a CD duper, small tv, cash register and more.  I
>>> haven't scavenged anything out of most of these. Some parts are broken and
>>> some still work but are just too old to sell in the store.
>>> 
>>> If anyone want's to come in and get it let me know.  I'll give it another
>>> week or so before heading to the dumpster.
>>> 
>>> I'm also getting ready to have a yard sale.  I'll post pics and give you
>>> guys first shot.
>>> 
>>> Jerry
>>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2011, at 3:09 PM, telmnstr at 757.org wrote:
>>> 
>>>> For open hack on Fri I'm going to put out the contents of the free box in
>>> the back on table(s) and whatever isnt taken at end of open hack goes into
>>> trash. Time to reset the freebox.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 757labs mailing list
>>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 757labs mailing list
>>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>>> 
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> 757labs at 757labs.org
>> http://757labs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/757labs
>> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.
>> 
>> End of 757labs Digest, Vol 20, Issue 51
>> ***************************************
>> 
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> If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.